The coffee shop banned a man. He’s middle-aged. White. He’s been coming here as long as I have. I know from conversations with him that he accepts and promulgates several sharply right conspiracy theories and also promotes some unusual Christian ideas about how aliens founded or influenced Christianity. It’s a web which I couldn’t fully untangle.
He’s always struck me as a little lonely, eager for friendship, hungry for validation. One morning this week, he came in, set up somewhere, and placed an order. I didn’t hear any of that. He returned to his seat, picked up is gear, and headed for the door. Pausing by me, he said, “I showed some of them my website the other day, and they’ve banned me. They said they’d call the police if I came in here again.”
Turning, he shouted at the counter, “What happened to freedom of speech?” He stormed for the door. Pausing there, he yelled, “Fascists,” and was gone.
It’s a reflection about boundaries to me. I don’t know what was said the other day or how his website was presented. I know of two other people who were banned earlier this year because they ‘annoyed’ other customers. I witnessed some of that, and yeah, they were annoying. I have mixed thoughts about this, about businesses banning people. I don’t know what was said between the parties but I feel for the folks who struggle, and that’s what I’ve always thought I’ve seen with the banned three.
Michael Seidel, writer 
An interesting conundrum. Where do you draw the line? I think that a patron who is unruly and disturbing other customers should be asked to leave, but … banned for life? And in no circumstances do I think a customer should be banned for his/her political views, though I don’t think it’s appropriate for anyone to air their political views just on a whim, without being asked, especially in a business such as a restaurant or coffee shop where people go to enjoy a bit of peace. But a lifetime ban? I have a problem with that. But then again … what if the customer returns next time with a gun and starts shooting? In our country today, nothing is certain, every stranger is suspect. Sigh. Thought-provoking post, Michael! Hugs ‘n cheers
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Much the same thinking for me, Jill. I wondered, was he warned before? Was this the first and only offense? The staff always seem very tolerant, patient. It’s a regular hangout for several homeless individuals. Water is given without comment, and the space is shared, so it’s all very surprising. I feel like I only know part of the story. Manager is here and I might talk to her about it. Or not. Here to write. I’m jealous of that time, and guard it like it’s crown jewels. Hugs ‘n cheers
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Did you ask the manager about it? It has my curiousity stirred, wondering if there is more to the story, or if they just didn’t like him sharing his political views. I still have mixed thoughts about it, but … that’s a good thing … anything that makes us stop and think cannot be all bad, right? Hugs ‘n cheers!
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Reblogged this on Filosofa's Word and commented:
Michael Seidel raises a thought-provoking question in his post this afternoon … under what circumstances, if any, should a business ban a customer? After reading his scenario, I find that I have mixed feelings for reasons I mention in my comment to his post. I hope you’ll take a minute to read his short but thoughtful post. Thank you, Michael, for giving me some food for thought.
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Thanks for sharing, Jill, and the compliments. Hugs ‘n cheers, M
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My pleasure, Michael! Hugs ‘n cheers!
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I hope you did talk to the manager Michael and get some clarification of the circumstances. It might just have been better to have warned the man that his beliefs didn’t fit with the ethos of the place and would be best kept under wraps . An incident like this could alienate the asygoing, laid back customers and could invite retaliation from crazies. Hugs
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You mentioned a website. This most likely requires a steady home base, so I take it he is not homeless — but that is just an assumption.
It also sounds like the website contributed to the banning. Without visiting the website, we as outsiders csnnot draw any real conclusions. Was he advocating violence, or publishing child pornography? We don’t know, but we can expect it wss pretty radical in some way.
I’m not out to convict, or defend. All I am thinking is there is too little information to lean either wsy. A lifetine ban is not something a business owner does frivilously (in most cases!) As Ryinger77 asked the other day, does the colour of the customer’s skin have anything to do with the sale of a product? Actually, it might, depending on the product, but that would be a special case.
Obviously, this is a special case. More info is needed!
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Well, he’s white and all the employees are white. Very few people of color work/live in Ashlandia. I don’t know everything that was ever said between him and the employees. He said he was banned and the rest; all I know at this point is from his POV.
Most of my conversations with him were along the lines that Federal income tax is illegal and there’s a ‘guy who has never paid any income taxes, and he’s proven in court that FIT is illegal, and he always represents himself in court’. He’s never seemed violently intended to me but many people don’t seem violent until they act out.
The other thing crossing my mind later today is that several trans people work at the coffee shop. Did he upset them in some way? Don’t know; pure speculation on my part.
I visited his website a few times but not in the past several months, because he provided me the url. Don’t know if I still have it in this mess which is the quasi desktop filing system.
The whole thing obviously surprised me. It just doesn’t gibe with all that I’ve seen of staff and managements. They all always seemed friendlier and more tolerant than bans.
Couldn’t ask the manager today. When I came up from writing, she’d gone. I am friendly with three, four baristas so I may make discreet inquiries but they stay so damn busy. If/when I learn more, I’ll post.
Cheers
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I’m betting no one will be telling. You’ll have to ask the guy himself if you ever see him again.
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Without being aware of more, I’m not certain a ban-as opposed to “please leave and come back when you’re able to keep those statements to yourself” (and his website)-is the way to go, but this is the US, and it isn’t my coffee shop. I would point out that a ban is unlikely to keep someone from coming back with a gun and threatening to shoot up the place, and could inspire such violence, over a request to leave or a “suspension,” as it were. The flip side is, yes, there is freedom of speech, but there are also consequences. Maybe there were complaints about this particular guy, or the coffee shop was named on his website. It is always a shame to have to shun someone, but now and then, it’s definitely called for, for a while. I can’t say about this one; I’ll have to trust the business owner.
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Well, the freedom of speech thing to me was being misapplied; it applies to the government’s powers, and not what a private business’s rights and powers. Yes, I disliking the ‘shunning’, which is a good expression for it. I’ve not seen him since that day, either; previously, I’d see him ride his bike around town. He does go to another coffee shop which I frequent when my preferred isn’t available, but I didn’t see him there the two times I went this week.
I do know at least two of the staff who were on the day he left. I might approach them, but with all the baristas, I have a sense that they dislike talking about what goes on with customers, probably due to privacy concerns and concerns regarding possible further legal action.
I do trust the baristas, who I find to be friendly, well-meaning, and intelligent. That’s probably part of the reason the whole affair disturbs me. My sense of justice and fairness wants to know more.
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When I was a bartender, I banned customers all the time. I wasn’t the only one. There was a list behind the bar of people who were banned in that particular place. In fact, I know people who have been banned from numerous bars. I don’t see why coffee shops or restaurants should be any different. One rant is one thing; maybe the guy was having a bad day; we all have bad days. But when people are regularly ranting & raving .. that’s bad for business. That drives away the customers you want in your establishment.
I guess it all comes down to who you’re keeping out of your business & why. There are some good reasons to keep some people out & businesses should be able to exercise that discretion.
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Many good points in your comments, and I appreciate them all. Your final paragraph sums it up. In reflection, I don’t witness many being banned. It aroused my sympathy and curiosity. I don’t deny or question the business’s right to do so; I’m just deeply curious about the circumstances.
Thank you so much for reading and commenting. Cheers
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